To start out, read this for background. I'll quote for those without access. So, since I was KICKED out of an in-game clan - warframe , using the PR name, with NO record or reporting, or discussion, I'd say that would be treated as a server ban, and should be treated accordingly (logging it in the appropriate forums, including WHY you kicked/banned the person) and allowing PR council and triumvirate oversight. I'd like to enjoy playing a game just to play, and as a member of PR, I believe I am ENTITLED to all the benefits of being in an in-game PR clan, without having to deal with the drama of meeting whatever in-game requirements (grinding for 8 hours a day? I have no clue what the real complaint is that was used for kicking me) whichever member in-charge happens to set. I was gone all weekend so I wasn't online for whatever clan/alliance drama was happening when supplice decided to unilaterally change our alliance or whatever happened (I wasn't here to have any part in that, so it's all third party hear-say)
>"I have no clue what the real complaint is that was used for kicking me" >Admits to knowing the Warframe clan was dissolving before I can even come up with a diplomatic response brb need like an hour to come up with response
Looks like it's still up and running to me, per your post JUST TODAY. Add to that, that CZ, the only other warlord in the clan, claims that it had to do with my brother leaving the clan? Doesn't sound OR look like dissolution to me.
Thank you so much for bringing the images I've worked so hard on making sure people notice into this! If you see, I'm logged into Supplice2 - my main account, in a new clan with CZ, as well as a new alliance.... But Deathsnacks will show you who deployed the rail and set the message. http://gyazo.com/e8291bdd46a1ec7c2f55252a26c9563d SURPRISE, SUPRISE - A THROW AWAY ACCOUNT HOLDING ONTO THE CLAN UNTIL I GET ANSWERS FROM THE ORIGINAL TRIO THAT STARTED THE CLAN AND DESERVE IT MORE THAN ME AND CZ! If you would like, as soon as that rail is destroyed, I can officially dissolve it and EVERYTHING goes away, or would you prefer I try to make a political response now?
First, let's start with your 'background' information and your selective quoting within it - that discussion was brought up - by you, I might add - because back then tempers were flared EVERYWHERE and in regards to EVERYTHING. Things are, typically, a lot more chilled these days - but the clan was referred to as 'MY' clan on a couple of occasions and this steamed a couple of people off - that was what that discussion was about, and I'm getting the vibe this is going the same way just in different words. Note also NO rules were voted on or proposed and as such we have none regarding in-game clans, like the Warframe one - thus it's essentially the leader(s) set up their own structure, rules, so on and run it. Next topic of discussion, I'm not sure where to start on this one or what to highlight - maybe I should say we're supposed to log ALL bans, yet there are some bans in some servers (example, recent TS bans by a certain Tri...) that have yet to be logged.... Maybe I should point out what everybody points out to me when I get my ass chewed on something TS related, which essentially simplifies down to 'your opinion and what you think doesn't matter, it's what everybody else thinks.'... Maybe I should point out that it isn't a ban in anyway shape or form, the clan has been dissolved and is being held onto by a thread until an appropriate member can take the reigns for it - priority, of course, going to those that started it. You already acknowledge this, however. All of these are valid arguments, I would say. The only time I might think it IS related or similar to a ban in some form, is if the person removed isn't welcome back at all - people were removed A LOT for inactivity, one of the rules that were put in place (presumably, you were aware of the rules in place with the amount of times you were linked to threads containing rules and requested to make a wiki page as part of a deal) but were always welcome back. Always. Kind of a similar thing here, as it's looking like it will be under different leadership and everything will be up to them. So with that said, I was MORE than patient with you and Art on your VERY toxic attitudes and causing issues/drama within the clan and taking it to the point me and CZ REFUSED to be in the same TS channel as either of you. That alone is a rule that was in place that could have had you removed - I believe we were pretty patient. Moving on - you feel entitled (the fact of having a right to something) to having benefits of being in a PR clan, however you don't believe you need to follow requirements - aka rules? Well, I gather from you having 6 forma and nothing to spend it on versus us having none while we contributed to everything and you guys not knowing where the new lab locations were TWO WEEKS after they moved, you didn't grind for 8 hours a day... and that wasn't a real REQUIREMENT, but something that we kind of needed. Just sucked only being me and CZ. I won't even go over again how the most you contributed was, in fact, what was in the clan vault and planned from other vaults due to a CZ fuck up, as he admits to it, and I had to dump more than I planned in getting rooms built. Why WERE we so patient? TL;DR: There's a billion different clans out there, a lot of them with all of the research completed - so you don't have to worry about somebody pestering you 24 hours for 2 weeks straight to get you to contribute a small portion of something! I'm not liking the vibe I'm getting of "this is MY clan and I should get everything for ???" especially after the whole "I'm a Council Member on the forums thus I should be a Warlord" pseudo-threat attitude.
Besides the perfectly valid points on documentation (and the lack thereof) from both of you, the one thing I recall in all this is the last time there was Warframe clan drama, and the decision that the game provided valid reasons for moving less active players out of the in-game clan. I never viewed that as a punishment, just a reflection of in-game resource usage. But - I don't know the details of that. What's the benefit for a player to be in any particular clan? And what does that benefit cost, in terms of resource gathering / grinding / etc. Is switching clans simple to do? Could we just have A & B rosters, one for the actives and the other for idle players? So anyone can jump in to play, but you only move up if you're playing as frequently as the A team? Dunno if that would work without more info from you guys.
To try to explain in shortest, simplest way as possible - as a clan grows larger, more resources are needed to build sections of the clan dojo, kind of like clan housing. It will also require more for research that needs doing and other such things, as far as I'm aware - but the BIGGEST thing it impacts is the rooms built in the dojo. Some of these rooms are research labs that give you special weapons and even allow you to deploy solar rails to contest zones on the map of other clans/alliances for extra resources, credits, and experience. Each room, to build, will require a certain amount of certain resources as well as very rare to get and kind of difficult to hold on to resource known as 'Forma' - they are used for making your weapons and character stronger as well as building these rooms, more often than not me and CZ spent them on rooms and research. You can leave and join a clan at any time - the most difficult part about it is waiting for the clan key that requires minimal, easy to get resources to build, 12 hours - or 10 platinum to rush - kind of a waste, real money type thing. Technically speaking, there could be 2 rosters - an active one aimed for people trying to participate in end game content, and one just being more relaxed and easy going for the game? Issue is, maximum clan size is 1000 members - not sure how many would agree to something like that when everybody could be in one clan and contribute to everything... The issue becomes when it's nobody contributing but a few key people and the others celebrating that a new weapon has been researched. Beyond that, it might also be 'Who's active and interested in end-game content?' because I know who isn't and it's a long, long list....
So a small clan can do more with less, tactically speaking? Then maybe you need a lean end-game team and a large casuals team.
Well, tactically speaking, a small clan can get the dojo and all of the research completed very easily - assuming everybody is working towards that goal. It gets long and drawn out when it's 1-2 people (mind you, they update EVERY week and it's often content update - a lot of times lately research you'll have to do, soon coming to be U14 where A LOT of content gets added) and then at end-game where it's rail conflicts - the BIG clans and alliances win out over everyone else.
So, I'll take the time to provide a rebuttal before I go off to work for 9 hours (what I do instead of grinding a video game for the slave master), since instead of being civil, you are falling back into your old habit of aggressively attacking anyone who disagrees with you in an attempt to win some ephemeral argument by discrediting them, instead of just presenting an opposing view. No, actually. You don't tell ANYONE what you are doing with the warframe clan. Not when you join alliances, not when you leave them, not when you start taking on end-game content that USUALLY involved MULTIPLE clans working together as an alliance yourself, and expect us to spend our time to support you in that, instead of just enjoying the rest of the game that WE haven't finished yet. I know, or knew NOTHING about this dissolution or you making new clans and inviting only certain people. I asked CZ the question about dissolving the clan as a way of getting his to actually answer what happened, since we would both know that's not something you would do. A LOT? Really? The only people i remember being removed were trentos, abaddon, and angel, who you removed after 6 MONTHS of inactivity, so that we could get some active warlords to manage the clan. I wasn't even gone for 6 DAYS. So now, we come to the part where you present an issue as if you took the higher ground. You also tend to do this a lot, Supplice. Twist around a situation that YOU instigated, use words that make you SEEM generous at first glance, and then act indignant or upset, like you are the victim. So, let spell out what ACTUALLY happened then. Up until a month ago, I was unemployed. For me, that meant that I spent my time talking to recruiters, job searching, etc. And as a rule, didn't get online to game until after about 4pm, with exceptions for my brother. And until a few weeks ago, when I removed a security feature from my router, we relied on others players, like you, to be able to play in the same group on warframe. Now, my brother and I enjoy playing a game to play. We don't have 3 million credits, or 100+ orikin cells, and we haven't unlocked all the planets. For us, we needed these things. However, everytime we would want to do something like that, the response we got was "Well, I have a ton of X, so you don't need it, CZ and I are doing this thing instead". A couple weeks ago, you joined us into an alliance, on your own, without any input from other members of the clan. Whatever, my brother and I didn't make a big deal out of it, we just enjoyed playing the game, and had new people to run with. And we starting like the ALLIANCE members. They were FUN (the point of a video game, in case you've forgotten supplice). So, this toxicity you refer to, is 1. my brother getting tired of your "all about supplice and what he wants to do attitude", and 2. YOU and CZ LEAVING us AND other alliance members in TeamSpeak for your own channel because we weren't doing what YOU wanted. We were busy HAVING FUN. Now, I realize that is may be PATIENCE for you to allow people to do something OTHER than what YOU WANT, but really, you aren't the victim here. And trust me, FUN isnt' TOXIC. I WORK (I know, a foreign concept to mr expects you to grind 8 hours a day) for 9 HOURS a day. When I come home, I'm tired. I don't want to spend my couple remaining hours before going to bed, slaving for you on that 3rd rail you want to deploy with 2 people (usually rails take an alliance worth of contributions). Instead, I want to spend just a few hours BONDING with my BROTHER. Again, it comes back to us not doing what YOU want, and then getting pissed. THEN, you remove us from the alliance for some petty politics, with no discussion, which was sad, since I liked those guys. After that, well I was busy being on vacation and out of town with family, I.E. REAL LIFE, so I wasn't online for about 4 days. are you going to tell me what rules I broke? Because last I checked, not doing what supplice wanted (playing a different mission other than you) wasn't breaking a rule. Neither was disagreeing with you, or not grinding enough. Seriously, with the more exaggeration? I had THREE. I spent one on my ogris. and i have PLENTY to spend it on. Which is upgrading my weapons. Which is their PRIMARY use. Because i don't grind for 8 hours, I don't have lots of extras for YOU. Sorry. that's because you changed things around AND you insisted on spending your resources on MULTIPLE rails, again, an end game things usually contributed to my multiple clans worth of people. I don't feel sorry for giving you ALL of my resource, which is the whole of EVERYTHING i've earned in ALL my time on warframe. needed because of YOUR unilateral decisions, without input from the rest of the clan members. Pardon me for not feeling obligated supplice. again, you are getting pissed that I didn't dump all my resources into YOUR rebuilding project and YOUR multiple rails. I did contribute a lot. I just don't have 10s of forms, millions of credits (unlike your screenshot where you have 3 million, I usually have around 3 thousand). Probably because it's a video game, and I get to have FUN playing it, and spend all my days doing it supplice's way.
(snip) Isn't it readily apparent that you guys are not prepared to play well together? So why are we fighting to do just that? Supplice, why don't you keep the end-game team together doing your thing, and Gorian you can start a casuals group for anyone else. Never played the game, but it's easy to see you two are playing two different games. So why are we fighting about that again?
I'm pissed off, for a number of reasons. 1. I've invested a lot of time and resources (more time really) into that clan. 2. I feel disrespected, after everything I've done and contributed. 3. I just want to be able to enjoy a few hours of gaming with my brother and friends without being punished for not doing more - for no reason other than supplice was the first person to go get the old warlords deposed for inactivity so that he became warlord. I get home about 5pm after being at work for 9 hours. That gives me about 4 hours until I go to bed. Most of those hours go to dinner, TV with the girlfriend, and reading before I fall asleep. That leaves an hour or two to enjoy a video game with my brother. In that hour or so, I want to enjoy playing, not grind for the guy who has 12 hours a day to play's newest thing that they decided to do, and then decided everyone else was responsible to do as well.
Look, I'm not going to challenge every decision the admin of an in-game clan makes. Looking at this thread from an outside perspective, it seems clear that there were reasons for those decisions, and none of them run contrary to our charter in any obvious ways, beyond the missing documentation that we all acknowledged from the get-go. Now, like I said.. It's easy to see you and Supplice are playing two different games. Now I can get why you're mad, but what do you really want out of this? From what I can understand, to play the game drama free. Now isn't that best served by trying to form a PR in-game clan for casuals? So Supplice can go chasing his endgame stuff without burdening anyone who wants to play more casual, and you guys can float in and out without throwing his resource ratios out of whack. Or, y'know, we can keep pissing around in here. Whatever.
Had a huge post typed out, then realized, yeah, Saib's on the right track, I think I'll enjoy some food instead of responding to TOP KEKZ. I can find somebody that's interested in a more hardcore, end-game DO ALL THE THINGS game, meanwhile Gorian can form a casual group for Phantom Rapture for casual players and that will likely be best. 2 different clans, 2 different leaderships, 2 different recruitment options, rules, everything.
With Saib. Gorian - you're tired and grumpy because you forgot what it's like to work and game. Supplice - get some sleep. You're getting crazy again.
